Talk:Natsuki Subaru

Error in a "Natsuku Subaru" Powers "Melee" about result a fight between Otto and Subaru.
Dont's has source about "...a fistfight between Otto and Subaru would always end in Otto's win...", in the ARC 4: ETERNAL CONTRACT PHASE 2, the author say about straight fistfight, not just fistfight about melee combat. In Chapter 31, Maid, Maid, Maid the author say: ". Subaru can't beat Otto in a straight fistfight, but that doesn't make Otto some amazing strong-guy." page 65. Otto is a great wizard, just won Subaru in one moment, but Subaru is a good atletic combatent, knocked off 3 thieves in the anime, but the Author never says in infinite possibilitys a combat between Otto and Subaru, all results is a Otto's victory, and if has, the writter this Wikia Topic, don't left the source. Ass: Aprile1992author

Hey. I'm the one who added that fact to Subaru's page. I'm not a Japanese speaker so I can't check the original source but from what I've read, the author did indeed state that.

Then again, twitter Q&As shouldn't be regarded as factual proof, considering how many mistakes and contradictions Tappei makes with those Q&As. Plus, he himself stated so.

Best regards Black Reaper Sasaki

I undestand about author replies, mainly in a tweet or answer yours fans, but a only source what I found in japanese or english in the internet, was in Arc 4, when Otto try talk with Subaru about Emilia, and the what I undestand in this moment in novel is about Subaru very angry in this situation, but don't mean what Otto can Win in all battles, of course what but of course Otto is a great mage, for being a being of this "new world", even more in the trader role, he is not a softie physically, but Subaru even by human standards, he is much stronger, knocking out in one of his incarnations the three thieves, but even in the interviews the author stated that he is not stronger than them, but he still won, in the Rank, Subaru just more strenght: Petra, Anastasia, Lewes(Real one) and Ferris. Just, but Subaru is an only human, and yours magics it depends on Beatrice. If don't has a confiable source about infinity possibilitys in the fight between Subaru and Otto with result is ever Otto's win, it's not a factual answer, since the closest source on this says that Subaru wouldn't just win a straight fight. Ass: Aprile1992author

Two things: 1, don't make a new section every reply, and 2, learn how to sign your posts, if you can't then post this on a message wall instead

As for the topic itself, the author's word is still canon compared to your opinion so the trivia still stands. If you want to argue that it's not accurate then bring an actual source other than your opinion

 Angelo Gabrini   (talk)   (contributions)  08:45, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Hey Angelo, I'll just mention that a couple of weeks ago, Tappei held the 10th Anniversary Q&A over on that new Twitter Space feature and in it, he stated his Twitter and MySpace Q&As should be taken with a grain of salt as he usually comes up with the answers on the spot and tend to forget about them later. Furthermore, he contradicted himself on two very important topics, which just furthers his claim.

So the OP's concern is at least half sound. I'll look over it in the next couple of days tho I can't promise any changes as I specifically remember adding that trivia via a Q&A session.

Black Reaper Sasaki (talk) 09:39, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

While that may be true, an answer from the author is still an official and canon answer unless it's directly contradicted by a WN/LN source instead of "I don't think he can win all of them"

 Angelo Gabrini   (talk)   (contributions)  10:42, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Angelo Gabrini and Black Reaper Sasaki, I'm use opinion? All things here, I show the Arch, Chapter and Page:https://witchculttranslation.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/a4-ph02-c024-c051-unrevised.pdf You aren't show the source about author quote about Otto's win in all moments again Tsubaru. You don't has education. I just say to Black Reaper Sasaki is about "Author Source", just this. I'm new in this Wikia, I can't use this tools, and in never moment I wasen't disrespectful to Black Reaper Sasaki, I just made an observation, because often the vocabularies from Japanese to English can be totally different and I believe that Black Reaper did not pass this information on in malice, maybe he really has this source or may have if mistaken, I just showed the source I researched on this subject and the only place it shows is in the Novel at the moment Subaru is in shock for not knowing what to do. Even Otto says that Subaru wasn't paying attention in that fight and the author makes that very clear, when Subaru and Otto at no time wanted to hurt each other, just to pass a scene where the "protagonist" needs a help to get back up, a clihcê of several animes like Inazuma Eleven, Dragon Ball, Naruto and etc. Now there's a quote that Subaru "NEVER" will ever beat Otto, I didn't think, just that he doesn't have a chance in a direct combat, and IF the Tappei Nagatsuki is canon, only momment in the Twitter he's say something the what say here: Subaru CAN'T Win in the straight fistfight: SOURCE JAPANESE VERSION: https://twitter.com/nezumiironyanko/status/1346826086051577858 SOURCE ENGLISH VERSION: https://www.reddit.com/r/Re_Zero/comments/krrzka/translation_authors_twitter_comments_on_season_2/

Ass: Aprile1992author

You're doing an awful lot of assuming in your post there. Nowhere did I say you were disrespecting Sasaki nor was I singling you out for anything, my two points above were for both of you. Also, you're not making a good impression by claiming that people "don't have an education". As for Sasaki I trust him more than I trust someone new to the wiki, if he says that it came from a Q&A then I believe him, that being said he still needs to prove said source to prove his point

As for the topic, I feel like you're getting off topic, the example you give in your latest reply doesn't really have anything to do with the original issue you brought up and the author's tweet you linked doesn't really support your claim

Edit: I looked up the tweets and here's the tweet (https://twitter.com/nezumiironyanko/status/1346826970965786627) that better supports the issue. The author clearly states that Otto will always win in a fist fight, there's no point in trying to get into headcanon territory by claiming that Subaru could somehow pull off a comeback somewhere down the line

 Angelo Gabrini   (talk)   (contributions)  02:27, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

You've already removed your post but I may as well respond. I let your first rant slide but if you want people to listen to you then you should stop ranting and resorting to insults. If there is something I'm misunderstanding then it's because English doesn't seem to be your first language (there's nothing wrong with that), I've had a hard time understanding certain sections of your arguments

Unlike your claim, I did look at the tweet and the reddit link, the only thing I didn't look at was the pdf you linked earlier. As for me linking the tweet, I always check the original Japanese source since the English may have errors (which is what you're arguing about here with how you claim that Otto wouldn't always win against Subaru). You told Sasaki that he needed to provide a Japanese source for his claim that the text was correct and so I did it for him

As for your translation, I'm not sure why the Japanese text you provided isn't word for word when you could've just copy/pasted it. Of course you're going to get a terrible translation from that since it's not the complete original text, and especially not when it seems like you're MTLing it instead of actually translating it

Your argument is based off of your incorrect translation which is unnecessary to begin with when the reddit translation by WintryOne works just fine, "In a situation where Subaru and Otto are fighting with just their fists, just as you see here in this preview fight, Otto wins hands down. As a proper merchant, Otto has learned self-defense and such, and Subaru has at most the pro-wrestling moves he learned from his father."

There is no "specific situation" here (such as you claiming that Subaru is on offense and Otto on defense), the author clearly states that in an unarmed/fist fight, Otto would easily win. Does it say "always"? No, but I'm not going to spend time headcanoning various fight sequences just to see if Subaru would somehow overturn Otto's advantage. You seem to have issues with the text seemingly implying that Subaru is weak which is obviously true considering the events that have happened so far

Borrowing your words but rephrasing it in a more polite manner, I don't care to continue this discussion either if you're just going to be obnoxious. If you want a discussion then you're welcome to have it as long as you're civil, otherwise you're looking at a ban if you continue to rant and insult

 Angelo Gabrini   (talk)   (contributions)  06:26, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Yes Angelo Gabrini, english is not my first language, and in my language some words is not same in other language, I clear my last answer for don't continue in this discussion, but I will use a tradution good for english, translate for a Reddit user: "In a situation where Subaru and Otto are fighting with just their fists, just as you see here in this preview fight, Otto wins hands down. As a proper merchant, Otto has learned self-defense and such, and Subaru has at most the pro-wrestling moves he learned from his father." Has a good translate now? Ok, i Will be continue in your last answer. You say "ALWAY" but the author never use this word, don't worry the translate, he's never use this specific word, that is, in this single word alone there is already a visible distortion of the author's tweet. At the beginning of the conversation on this topic, I made it very clear that there were inconsistencies, but I didn't say that Subaru was strong, in fact I still said that he was one of the 5 weakest characters in the franchise and that's the purpose of the work, not to make a powerful character, but one that can solve the obstacles that arise in the course of the work in another way. However, you even after admitting that "... in an unarmed fight...", is already a specific case, I repeat, the author makes it very clear, right after saying this, saying that if you compare Subaru's self-defense and Otto, Otto for being a merchant, in a hostile world, he has a much better preparation than Subaru who, at most, trained with his father, and this is no contradiction, I say exactly that at the beginning of the conversation. However, you replicate the sentence translated by you (Since my first translation was bad), it already contradicts what is in the Wikia topic that does not specify in an unarmed fight and much less an absolute result, only that IF THERE IS ANOTHER BATTLE LIKE IT WAS THE ANIME, Subaru will lose, that was no secret, in fact I start this conversation based on this PDF topic that is the fully translated Arc 4 that whether or not it is the original source of the work, even with the Author to say the complete opposite, it would contradict the source of the main work, but that doesn't mean doing a headcannon, just creating an imaginary exercise that originated from the author's Tweet and that will never happen again in the anime, so it's not something that will happen, just put information in the best way. I'm not having a problem with the text, but what is specified in Wikia, you can't just state a result and put that the author said that, it doesn't mean I want to see X amount of fights until I know when Subaru will win, that is no justification for claiming a 100% conclusive victory, so you can just post it and say "Otto will always win". Again, you contradict yourself in the penultimate paragraph, admitting exactly what I'm claiming in this dialogue: "Does it say "always"? No, but..." No matter what comes after the "but", you've already admitted that it's NO, it's not, it's over. If it was in a case of a discussion on Reddit that someone posted and you think Otto will always see it, OK, now to put that the author said that, it's a pure lie, because at no time did the author use this word to define the result of all the "unarmed" battles between Subaru and Otto, you can interpret the Tweet however you want, now you can't conclude something that doesn't exist. Being and being able to be are totally different things, if the author wanted to state this categorically he would, but neither in the tweet nor in Arc 4, Chapter 31 he did that. I exaggerated the offenses, this was also one of the reasons that made me delete the post, I didn't see the need to use rude words with any of you. Ass: Aprile1992

I feel like this topic has spun out of hand considerably. The original issue you had, was that Subaru's fight with Otto (fistfight) would always end with Otto winning. More specifically, you take issue with the usage of the world "always". As I said yesterday, I'll give it another look and correct it as necessary, and I still plan on doing that. Having said that, Angelo did the work for me and provided you with a link. While the tweet doesn't necessarily include the said term, the whole answer does server as a form of guarantee that Subaru stands no chance in a 1v1. But yeah, Subaru does possess the ability to restart the fights infinitely so in theory he could take a couple million tries to learn each and every single move Otto has at his disposal and counter all of them. Due to that, I'll rewrite the statement you have issue with, once I get home. Hope that's good enough for you and apologies for any troubles I've caused.

But... just to make things clear. Subaru stands no chance in a 1v1 with Otto, and you haven't proved us the opposite.

Black Reaper Sasaki (talk) 07:24, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

@Aprile1992

Just so you know, you need to add a space in between paragraphs, otherwise it just becomes one huge block of text. I probably should've said this earlier but an easier way to sign your post is to type ~ four times in a row which causes wiki to add your signature

I see what you mean but in my opinion I don't really see anything wrong with leaving it as is considering it'd be highly unlikely for Subaru to win if Otto can beat him easily. That being said I'll leave it up to Sasaki to decide what he wants to do with it since he's the one that edited it

As for your insults, it's fine if you realize that it wasn't necessary, but make sure to keep it in mind so you don't write another rant post

 Angelo Gabrini   (talk)   (contributions)  07:26, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Black Reaper Sasaki, I never said that Subaru would keep restarting until it managed to learn every move from Otto to win, in reality this is your "mental exercise" and the moment you say it can take "millions of years or attempts", it would already contradict the "Always", you are using the etymology of the word in the most erroneous way possible, falling into the famous "Hume's Law" or "Hume's Guillotine", where you put an assumption as fact: Is or Should, are different senses, at the moment. that you question a possibility, even if the probability was one in a million of Subaru winning, is already enough to show that there is no "always" in this result, but I'm tired of this conversation, whether you want to verify source or not, whether you want to change or not, I no longer care.

Thanks Angelo Gabrini.

Ass: Aprile1992

You know what I find extremely funny? That I'm literally catering to your wants, willing to respond to you and consider your request despite it being so minor and borderline insignificant that I could've easily disregarded it and never replied, but no, you keep complaining and lightly insulting me. Chill out man, I'm trying to help here, not troll you or anything.

Furthermore, your reply kinda makes me thing you aren't even reading my replies correctly. I don't know if you don't understand what I'm trying to say or if you're just speeding through my replies but do me a favour and actually read what I'm saying.

To reiterate, I'm trying to be helpful here but you're not having any of it.

This topic is becoming rathet redundant so this'll likely be my last reply.

Black Reaper Sasaki (talk) 08:03, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Black Reaper Sasaki, I like you, I read all your messages, in fact I even went to look up the author's tweets and this Q&A. But this anime is leaving me with much more doubts than certainties and I come to Wikia to take them out, maybe you and even Angelo have much more affinity with the work than I do.

As Angelo said, the choice is yours, it was you who edited this information on Wikia and from what I saw on your profile, you are no amateur, so I will agree with your information on Wikia and this will also be my last answer, thanks for the attention of both.

Ass:aprile1992